Commentaires sur : Qu’est-ce que le Developmental Editing ? / What is Developmental Editing ?

Par : Beverly

Beverly — Thu, 15 Dec 2022 16:24:22 +0000

It was very interesting. I’ll write more at another time. She talked about sticking close to the French in her work (rather than taking the many liberties that Scott Moncrieff took in his translation. one example pointed out to me a subtle difference between French and English literary writing. That is, that French readers are more accustomed to ambiguity than English readers. We tend to want the precision that an extra word or two can offer. Here’s the main example she gave. In Swann’s Way, Proust writes of Tante Leonie “Elle nous aimait véritablement, elle aurait eu plaisir à nous pleurer; survenant à un moment où elle se sentait bien et n’était pas en sueur, la nouvelle maison était la proie d’un incendie où nous avions déjà tous péri… » In Davis’s translation, she writes « She truly loved us; she would have taken pleasure in mourning us; had it come at a moment when she felt well and was not in a sweat… ». It’s a very long passage!! In English, Davis noted that we (and as an editor myself I would be in this category!) might be tempted to write « She truly loved us, but she would have taken pleasure in mourning us … ». Adding « but »To make it easier on the reader so he or she doesn’t stop and reread and maybe say « What? » But that « but » is perhaps not necessary in French literary writing. The reader goes along with the author… hope this helps! I continue to look at Davis’s book Essays Two, which focuses on translating.

Par : Midgard's Writers

Midgard's Writers — Thu, 15 Dec 2022 14:53:25 +0000

En réponse à Beverly. Thank you for the link! What did Lydia Davis have to say?

Par : Beverly

Beverly — Thu, 01 Dec 2022 15:35:34 +0000

Good afternoon —
I will definitely let you know what Lydia Davis has to say on Saturday at the Proust gathering. I’ve been reading about her approach to translating (she believes in sticking as closely as possible to the French — word order etc — without being enslaved by it!) and comparing her translation of Swann’s Way with that of Scott Moncrieff. Next up is a look at Mme Bovary.

Here’s the link to the Pym conference papers. Mine is the fourth one — « Lessons from Across the Channel: What the French Can Teach Us About Barbara Pym and What Pym Can Teach Us About the French. » I’ve attached a pdf also. If you have trouble opening them, just let me know.

https://barbara-pym.org/conference-monographs/

https://barbara-pym.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Bell_AGM21.pdf

To be continued !
Beverly

Par : Midgard's Writers

Midgard's Writers — Thu, 01 Dec 2022 13:59:26 +0000

En réponse à Beverly.

Hi!
Sorry for taking so long to reply, it’s been a busy week. Please share the link! I would love to read your paper. I would also love to hear what Lydia Davis has to say. It would be great if we could discuss this further. You can either post your comment here or send me an email (you’ll find my email address on the Contact page).

Translating humor can be so hard. Many jokes don’t translate well. For instance, I’m about to post an interview on the blog and the American author I interviewed made a joke with “ghostwriter” and “ghost”, but since the translation of ghostwriter is so different in French, translating this sentence was really tricky. It’s just a blog post and many readers on this blog understand English as well, so I decided to explain the joke, but in most cases I would have had to find another joke that works in French.

I totally agree. Style is the first thing that comes to mind when French people want to write something. They don’t even realize there are storytelling techniques as well. Because they’re afraid their style will be terrible, many people don’t even dare to write and if they’ve decided to start writing a novel, they often try to write perfect sentences while they’re working on their first draft. Unfortunately, it can lead to writer’s block…

Par : Beverly

Beverly — Mon, 28 Nov 2022 16:09:10 +0000

Thank you very much! It’s wonderful to be in touch with someone to discuss this question. I looked up the problematic translation by DeSaxus and found the story. Very interesting. I have done some research over the years on the French translations of the English novelist Barbara Pym (a favorite writer of mine) and gave a paper on the subject at the Pym Society in Oxford in 2021. It was fascinating because I was able to analyze how the English sense of humor could be difficult to capture in French. This led me to delve into the question of how the French communicate. In doing the research I got a lot of help from reviewers of the novels on Babelio. Since then I’ve stayed in touch with two of them — in fact one of the reviewers told me about the novel I’m now trying to translate portions of — with the idea I might be able to help the author and her publisher find a U.S. publisher (the novel
takes place in NYC). I have never worked as a translator (I’m primarily an editor) and this is probably the only novel I would tackle — and that’s because it’s so unusual and it takes place in my city.

One of the things that may also be different about writers in France vs the US/England (in addition to what you point out about a lack of writing classes etc) is the fact that the French take enormous pride in their ability to speak well and write well. This is not so important in the English-speaking world, where a quiet person is not necessarily viewed as having little to say. So French authors may be less inclined to take advice about style changes. I read once where the translations of Balzac are sometimes better than the original— but that was because he was in such a hurry to avoid creditors!

Anyway. You might enjoy the paper I wrote about the Pym translations. I can send you the link. For fun. And it mentions a fascinating book —“The Bonjour Effect” which is all about the importance the French place on their wonderful language.

On Saturday I’m going to an all day Proust event at Albertine Bookstore in NYC. I’m very eager to hear all the speakers but in particular Lydia Davis, who translated Swann’s Way for Penguin in 2000, when all of La Recherche was re-translated. She could certainly give me an insight into the editing question!

With many good wishes. And much appreciation!

Beverly Bell
New York City

Par : Midgard's Writers

Midgard's Writers — Mon, 28 Nov 2022 15:12:36 +0000

En réponse à Beverly.

Hi,
Thank you for your comment!
French publishing houses have editors, but since I’ve never worked as an in-house editor in a French publishing house, I can’t tell you exactly how they work. I’ve been wondering about the same thing, and I don’t have a definite answer. I guess French publishing houses don’t have the same budgets as a big publishing house in the US or the UK, and it might have an impact on the editing process. As far as I understand, editing rates are much lower in France, and of course incomes are lower as well, but they still seem really low. For instance, I’ve been contacted by a small publishing house and the sum they offered for developmental and line edits were so low that I had to decline, I wouldn’t have been able to work properly. The same thing happens when books are translated into French, rates are really low and sometimes publishing houses don’t check the translation properly. For instance, the publishing house De Saxus was criticized for one of the translations they published. I can’t remember which book it was, but it was probably a bestseller. They hadn’t checked the translation and have left notes written by the translator in the books they sold. Of course it doesn’t always happen and there are many great translations (I used to work as a translator and I know it’s hard work).
So the budget might be one of the reasons why you can still find inconsistencies, but I’ve also noticed there are huge differences between the writing process in the US/UK and in France. In the US, everyone is talking about writing techniques, improving one’s craft and enrolling for writing courses. In France, I feel like we used to think writers were geniuses and were born with their skills instead of learning their craft over time. It’s been changing over the last few years, but when I started working as a writing teacher a few years ago, almost no one was talking about writing techniques and I think there were only one or two creative writing degrees. I feel like French writers tend to have more freedom and editors don’t always have the same expectations, especially small publishing houses.

Par : Beverly

Beverly — Mon, 28 Nov 2022 00:38:32 +0000

Good evening
I am fascinated by your interest in developmental and line editing. As you know, such editing is very common in US and UK publishing houses and goes far beyond proofreading. Do French publishing houses commonly use such editors? I’ve been hoping to find someone who might know. I’m currently translating parts of a wonderful new French novel but I sometimes come across inconsistencies that a line editor or developmental editor would typically catch. Thank you for any information you might have on this subject. One factor I’ve considered is that English is so flexible there are many ways to say basically the same thing… some ways are clearer than others! French is perhaps less flexible, making clarity an easier goal?

Many thanks and with appreciation for your consideration.